duplicate certificate year of manufacture

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Jackie
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duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:03 pm

Hi members of Fleetwood Owners club, I just recently joined this club and thank you for that.
I am Jackie Steegmans from Belgium, sorry for my bad English writing, and I have a nice, beautiful camping trailer of the type Fleetwood Crystal 148/4C with identification plate 88 FL 00690. I would have liked to make this caravan ready to drive in Belgium, Europe and UK, but the authorities will not allow me to do so. >:(
Of course I have this camping trailer, but I don't have any documents left. These have been lost by the previous owner. I told them the Fleetwood factory no longer exists. Even though the factory no longer exists, the authority here in Belgium still asks for a document of the year of manufacture of my Fleetwood caravan and then send it to them. Only then can they make this caravan ready to drive.
Now,
with a lot of research to do on the internet and asking around here in Belgium government, I have come to my caravan:
1. Make: Fleetwood Caravans Ltd.
2. Type: Fleetwood Crystal 148 / 4C
3. VIN: 0690 88FL00
4. identification plate: 88 FL 00690
Dear members, I have been working for over a year to make this camping trailer ready to drive. That is why I ask where can I obtain a copy of duplicate certificate year of manufacture of the registration certificate of this camping trailer or a certificate of conformity. This is to enable us to re-register the camping trailer in Belgium based on this data with only the VIN number. The Belgian government explicitly requires a certificate of the year of construction of this caravan in order to drive it in Belgium, Europe and the UK. I know from the identification plate, according to our club Fleetwood, how to find the year of construction and mine is 88 FL 00690. So the year 88 = 1988 and 00690 would be the 690th built. I have passed this on to our government in Belgium, but they must still have a certificate of construction year from the manufacturer or other official bodies.
The main question now is where can I find this certificate or duplicate certificate year of manufacture of my camping trailer of which the factory is no longer. Can someone help me please. Or can someone personally scan me such a certificate to me via my email, so I can see how that document looks like when the factory still exists.
I would really appreciate that someone can help me to get my oldtimer Fleetwood Crystel camping trailer from 1988 ready to drive by just having the document that the government of Belgium requires to go on holiday this year. This is because it has been in the stable for more than a year. A frustrated Member, Jackie Steegmans E-mail: ja.steegmans@gmail.com..

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby richardB » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:23 am

Unfortunately as this caravan was made in 1988 it is unlikely it ever had a COC.As you know Fleetwood finished in 2009 after being taken over by Adria.Whether or not they can help I don't know? We have had quite a few inquiries from people in Europe with the same problem,but none of them have let us know how they resolved the problem!
As far as I am aware all EU countries should have an inspection system for registration in place in these circumstances.
Last edited by richardB on Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jackie
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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:36 am

Hello Richard,
Thanks for your quick response, but if someone can send a scanned document in PDF or other file via my mail, from a later date, such a certificate of construction year of any caravan with the brand label Fleetwood on it, I can continue. I would really appreciate this. If I succeed, I will definitely tell this in our forum, how I made the caravan ready to drive, I will explain it in scents and colors. Best regards to our members, Jackie Steegmans, e-mail: ja.steegmans@gmail.com. .

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:43 am

Sorry,
I also forgot to write that I sent an email to Adria Benelux and I received a stool email that they cannot provide such a document, because this would be regarded as fraud and that I am not allowed to send an email because they regard the file as closed and will no longer reply to my emails. So I am faced with closed doors again. They know about the history of Fleetwood but they do so in their noses blood. Jackie

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby richardB » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:57 am

I doubt that such a thing exists,I certainly don't remember seeing anything when we had a Fleetwood and that was a 2004.As you have worked out all the information is on the plate.We are only a small club now and only a couple still have Fleetwoods and they are older than yours! As I added to my previous post there should be a way of doing it but as we know the rules are interpreted in different ways!
I should think social medias the way to go,someone else must have done it,but maybe not since we left.

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby AllanandJackie » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:24 am

Hi Jackie

Not sure if you have seen the article one of our members in France wrote under Help & Experiences. It took they 13 months!

https://www.fleetwood-owners-club.co.uk ... -in-france

They needed copies of brochures to help with their registration so I have shared our 1988 folder.

Good Luck
Jackie

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:41 pm

Hi Jackie,
thank you for your comment and I must tell you that I have also read from France. I have also sent an email with this as proof, namely leaflets and unfortunately here in Belgium this is also not valid and they keep asking head by piece after a certificate of construction year or a document with a date of the year of construction of my caravan . So leaflets are not okay.

Therefore I wanted to ask the members of our club, even if it is a later date, for example: the years 2000 to 2009 a document of any caravan with a date of construction year with a stamp of the factory or logo on that document from Fleetwood, please email me. I have already obtained all other documents such as technical information and brochures by searching the internet of my caravan, but they are not valid here at the authorities in Belgium. I also saw a Fleetwood caravan from the year 2009 when selling a Fleetwood caravan on a Dutch site selling caravans, a photo with the technical booklet folders and a document of the CRiS registration document,
Site: https://www.cris.co.uk/
,of that caravan, but this was unclear on that photo. I have sent an e-mail to the CRiS institute in England but they also couldn't find my caravan and think it is not registered due to the period 1988, was also not required then.

This document from CRiS, if someone from any caravan Fleetwood has one of those, just scan it and send me by email, I think it would save me. Because there I suspect that there is more information such as the year of construction of the caravan. I hope for a favorable outcome from our members and thank you in advance. ;)

Best regards to members, Jackie E-mail: ja.steegmans@gmail.com.

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby AllanandJackie » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:51 pm

The NCC ( National Caravan Council ) which is the Uk regulatory body responsible for ensuring that caravans, static & mobile and motor homes Conform to the specifications set out by the manufacturer. In their web site they state :-

“The majority of European countries require component certificates to prove that the caravan is roadworthy.

To obtain these documents, you need to contact the chassis manufacturer of your caravan (usually AL-KO or BPW) with the unique chassis details. If you are not sure of the chassis manufacturer or details they can be found on the axle plate. You need to ask the chassis manufacturer for component certificates for the; chassis, coupling head, overrun device and wheelbrake type (there may be a charge for these documents).”


I’m confident that your chassis was supplied by BPW. In the last few years BPW has been taken over by AL-KO, the former now concentrate on the larger chassis for trucks etc, but AL-KO has a section on their website that handles the BWP customers requirements.

I therefore suggest you contact BPW through the AL-KO UK website, requesting the information listed above. This info will then be the basis of the “Certificate of Conformance” that the authorities in your country require to issue approval for safe/roadworthy use of the caravan.

Hope this helps,
Allan.

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:41 pm

Hi Allanandjackie,
Thank you for this information and I immediately did what you describe in your forum. I am now waiting to see what this company will answer me. In any case, I have not done this before, because on my caravan the identification plates of both the chassis drawbar and the wheelbase of the BPW company are present, which I have not thought of because there is indeed the year 1988, whatever this of my caravan. Really good information. Thank you very much and folks at this forum, I'll let you know if this what Jackie proposal succeeds. Thank you again Jackie, your namesake Jackie from Belgium. ;)

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:47 pm

Sorry it was Allan ;)

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby AllanandJackie » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:07 pm

I think you should follow this up with a telephone call to them if you have not heard in two weeks.
Allan.

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby Jackie » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:58 pm

Best AllanandJackie, I don't know what else I can do if just a scanned document from one of our members with a Fleetwood stamp on it or a Fleetwood document with their caravan details on it. This way I can see what the document looks like. This is also what I have long been asking our members. The procedure that Mr Hoogmond says seems an expensive matter to me, but I can always try it abroad, but I would still like to see a document of the last caravan's 2004 of later, built from the factory of Fleetwood and on you market has been sold in UK. Should any of our members have any suggestions or ideas, please let me know. Kind regards, Jackie
E-mail: ja.steegmans@gmail.com.... or jaak.steegmans@hotmail.com....
To the great disappointment I have to inform you that we did not succeed. The government here in Belgium is very strict and keep their footing.
See 4 mails below together with the company AL-Ko:

1.Mail from AL-Ko to Jackie:
Good afternoon Jaak,
We cannot provide you with any information about the construction variant, BPW only supplied the loose undercarriage parts to Fleetwood at the time.
Based on your information, I can only determine the following production dates, which corresponds to the year of construction you have written:
Base BPW: 48.29.571.029 88145 Type: GTA 1.6 A.
EG 71/320 2124105132
o Year of construction 1988
o Week 14
o Day 5 (Friday)
Axle BPW: 46.21.316.202 N 88143 CB 1054 1050Kg
o Year of construction 1988
o Week 14
o Day 3 (Wednesday)
A certificate or document is not available, hopefully you can do something with this info ..
I assume that I have informed you sufficiently with this,
Kind regards / mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards
Armand Hoogeboom
Service & Technology
AL-KO KOBER B.V.
Diamantstraat 33
7554 TA Hengelo
armand.hoogeboom@alko-tech.com....
http://www.alko-tech.com "

2.Mail Jackie to the Belgian government:
Dear Fabian Denis,
I have sent an email to the factory where they make the chassis of caravans and it is also the only company that still exists, namely the chassis of my caravan to have it finally inspected and they prove that my caravan was built in 1988, I refer you to the email below. I now hope on the basis of this information that this e-mail can also be used officially to take the further steps to proceed to inspect my caravan.
I will also send you the attached photos of the identification plates of BPW at company AL-KO, mentioned in the email from that company below and also give the translation about the production data.
If it is negative, you can then possibly by e-mail to the manufacturer, especially Mr. Armand Hoogeboom of the company AL-KO Benelux, clearly state what should be done with this e-mail he has sent me. Thanks in advance.
I hope for a favorable outcome,
Regards,
Jaak Steegmans

3.Mail replies Belgian government to jackie and AL-Ko:

Dear Mr. Steegmans,
To validate this information I need a certificate from the manufacturer Fleetwood.
With best regards.
Fabian DENIS
Expert technique
vehicle@mobilit.fgov.be
Belgium
4.Mail replies from AL-Ko to Jackie result Belgian government:

Good morning Jake,
Just had a short phone call with Mr Denis.
Only with a certificate from the manufacturer Fleetwood can the caravan be allowed in Belgium.
Since that company no longer exists, you may be able to start an approval procedure via the surrounding countries and then import the vehicle back into Belgium.
M.b.t. the BPW chassis data, no further action needs to be taken, this information is now known and otherwise not relevant.
I assume that I have informed you sufficiently with this,
Kind regards / mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards
Armand Hoogeboom
Service & Technology
AL-KO KOBER B.V.

Such a beautiful old restored caravan from 1988 that I am proud of and yet I cannot drive it on the street here in Belgium, sad ....

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Re: duplicate certificate year of manufacture

Postby AllanandJackie » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:45 pm

I thought I’d try another angle on this “ C of C “ for you. I emailed the NCC, see communication below, for some clarity, their reply I believe gives absolute clarity, but unfortunately leaves you with no where to go!
This conformance standard was not in existence in the UK in 1988.
Your Government is applying todays requirements on a 1988 caravan which I’m sure would have been OK to use in your country at the time, but like everything today the bar is being raised to achieve the highest standards.
Of course you have the option, cost prohibitive I suspect and very time consuming, to pursue approvals of the unit through the current regulatory system of your country.


Email to NCC :-
I’m trying to help out a Fleetwood Owners Club member who is a resident of Belgium obtain a Certificate of Conformance for their Fleetwood caravan to allow them to tow it in their country.
As you know Fleetwood Caravans are no longer in business, they ceased trading in Jan 2009. They were previously fully owned by Adria for around 4 years prior to their demise.
The Fleetwood caravan in question is a :- Fleetwood Crystal 148/4C manufactured in 1988. 
The owner has been in contact with Adria & BPW the chassis manufacturer but to no avail, however the latter has furnished limited information on the chassis.
I’m not sure that a certificate of conformance/roadworthiness was required back in 1988, maybe you can advise, if so I am hopeful you could offer some direction in this area in order to resolve this issue.

Thank you for reading this e-mail and I look forwards to your response.
 
Regards,
 
Allan Jenkins
 
Reply from NCC:-

Dear Mr Jenkins
 
Thank you for contacting the NCC, further to your enquiry we can confirm that, as you have alluded to in your email, the Fleetwood caravan you have referenced would have pre-dated the requirement for a Certificate of Conformance.
 
We hope that this is of some assistance and we wish you all the best in your ongoing enquiries
 
Kind Regards
 

Jo Chubb
NCC Information Service
thencc.org.uk
NCC, Catherine House,
Victoria Road, Aldershot, Hampshire, GU11 1SS
 

 
 


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